Copedent for one lever minor chords?

[Brian Hopely]

I'm sure someone is doing this or has already tried it, but I've been thinking about the advantages of having a lever that dropped the 3rd and 6th strings a half step for easy major to minor changes, and for minor chords in general. I'd love to hear thoughts on this, particularly if you think it would NOT be a good idea.

[Sam Inglis]

Maybe I just lack imagination but I am not sure how useful I'd find it. I don't often want to change directly from, say, E to Em, and if I do, I can always use a half pedalled chord in the AB position.

What else would you be able to do with this change that you can't already do with standard changes?

(The first steel I owned had the RKR lever lowering 2 and 6 for some reason. The guy who sold it to me explained that the 6 lower was useful to get a flat seventh in the AB position, but I never really got my head round it.)

[Eric Dahlhoff]

I have a "0" pedal (left of the "A" pedal) that lowers #3 & #6 to G.
Pressing both "0" and "A" gives a nice diminished chord that I have fun using instead of a 7th.
I don't ever find myself using just the "0" pedal though.

[Troy Engle]

I've had that change on a few guitars, and I think it's a handy one. I've been toying with having it as a vertical instead of the usual B->Bb. Great for playing a 4 major to 4 minor which comes up a good bit.

[Dennis Montgomery]

That's the only change outside of the most common Emmons E9 setup that I use. I split the E's and put it on LR

[C. D. Maclean]

Always been surprised more people dont do this. I think the open minor chord is too important to be left to a split so I dedicate my RKL to it. I play ext E9 so I drop 6 and 11 one step to the minor third plus raise 1 and 3 to complete the set.

Calum

[Dave Mudgett]

I drop string 6 G# to F# on a lever, and split with the B-pedal to get G. The G#=>F# lower has an enormous number of uses if it's placed on the knee opposite the E=>Eb lower. The Em chord with that split is just one of these many uses, and is an easy move to make if set up properly.

I set it up with G#=>F# on LKR and E=>Eb on LKR, Emmons pedal setup. If I set up with E=>Eb on the left, I'd put G#=>F# on RKL. For me, it's my #1 priority lever change after the E raise and lower.

FWIW, I've had a dedicated 3&6 G#=>G lower for a while. I personally didn't find lowering 3 to G all that useful, and overall I find the string 6 whole-tone lower + split-with-B far more useful. But if I had a bunch of extra E9 levers to use beyond the normal 5 (the 5th for me being B=>Bb on LKV), I might consider adding it back. It's not that there's anything wrong with it. It's just that, for me, its marginal utility is lower.

[Richard Sinkler]

My first PSG (ZB S10 5p/2k) lowered both G# strings to G. Didn't care for it as there are better minors. When I switched to D 10s, I dumped that change.

Good major to minor moves are:

A & B pedals down. Let off the pedals and move 1 fret above and use the E to D# lever.

No pedals, use the B & C pedals 2 frets down

A pedal and E to F lever major chord. Let off the F lever to get the minor.

Several of the students I have had never realized there is a B major chord on strings 1,2,5. Use the knee lever that lowers string 2 to D (usually a half stop on the lever) to get the minor.

With all these options, as well as some mentioned above, I don't want to use a lever to lower 3 & 6 when there are much more useful changes for them.

[Brian Hopely]

I've had that change on a few guitars, and I think it's a handy one. I've been toying with having it as a vertical instead of the usual B->Bb. Great for playing a 4 major to 4 minor which comes up a good bit.

This is a big reason why I started thinking about this. I've been running into major to minor changes in a lot of material I've been practicing, and the idea of sustaining the root and fifth and just dropping the 3rd has a quality I like a lot.

Another reason is that from a purely practical point of view, if you start on 6 string guitar with major and minor chords, you can jump to the same fret and just change one finger for the 3rd in the chord. When I'm reading off of a chart, it would be pretty convenient to think "Bmin: 7th fret with one alteration", instead of 10th fret + two pedals. I like the variety of inversions that are already available and will continue playing minor chords in other ways, but it seems like a good way to ease the transition from people like me coming from guitar to pedal steel.

[Brian Hopely]

My first PSG (ZB S10 5p/2k) lowered both G# strings to G. Didn't care for it as there are better minors. When I switched to D 10s, I dumped that change.

Good major to minor moves are:

A & B pedals down. Let off the pedals and move 1 fret above and use the E to D# lever.

No pedals, use the B & C pedals 2 frets down

A pedal and E to F lever major chord. Let off the F lever to get the minor.

Several of the students I have had never realized there is a B major chord on strings 1,2,5. Use the knee lever that lowers string 2 to D (usually a half stop on the lever) to get the minor.

With all these options, as well as some mentioned above, I don't want to use a lever to lower 3 & 6 when there are much more useful changes for them.

Thanks for this response, this is a great reference for a new player like me. I'm putting this in my notebook for exercises to practice.

[Erv Niehaus]

I get a minor chord two different ways.
Either with the A foot pedal or the E knee lever, or some call it the D knee lever.

[Richard Sinkler]

I get a minor chord two different ways.
Either with the A foot pedal or the E knee lever, or some call it the D knee lever.

I also call the lever that lowers 4 & 8 the "E" lever as it acts on the E strings. My second string lower, I call the D lever because one of the 2 notes it loweers to is a "D" note. But most of the time, I just refer to the lever by what it does.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Erv: I use the A pedal and D knee lever(Lower E's). To get a minor voicing a lot too.
Some of the best voicing I have found on many songs is the B/C pedal 6th minor at 5th chord position.

Just 2 of many songs, Where Corn Don't Grow, Don't Close your Eyes, Have places for the B/C minor voicing just fits.

Or any song that you need a 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th minor, And 2nd minor to end a song. You have all chords and moves needed in 4 frets.
I found this years ago, Wood shedding, "Out of the box", With Unchained Melody.

Tanya Tucker has a version of Unchained Melody, On U-tube. About a month ago I saw a house band, Train wreck on that song.

[J D Sauser]

I am assuming E9th?
Many setups nowadays have a G# half step lower. Often on a vertical lever.

A&B down is A6th... it's relative minor is F#min7th
E's down (to Eb), is B6th... it's relative minor is G#min7th


while on C6th we can use pedal #6 (which is better know to morph the 9th-string rooted M9th into a Dominant 7/9th chord), to lower the M3rd of the 7th-string rooted Major to minor 3rd... (open C6th to Cm6th), it's not as practical as using a minor position 3 frets above the relative Major position, because is lacks space for movement. Example: quite often we will have a II7 going into iim7 and then V7 to IMaj... "All Of Me" comes to mind... but there are 100's of instances.
To pay/fool around, swing some cats around by their tails in between that II Dominant becoming a minor, one needs a playing field... space. Motion is good, just need to the room to wiggle around a bit!

.... J-D,

[Bobby D. Jones]

With being a musician, Coming over to pedal steel.
I suggest getting a Mel Bay E9th chord chart, (They are sold here in the forum store, At top of page.) Best 7.00 E9th map available.
Shows Major, 7th, Minor, Diminish, Augmented chords. Shows pedals, knee levers to use, And strings to pick.
Good Luck on your Pedal Steel Journey.

[Erv Niehaus]

I started using that chord chart when it only cost $1.50

[Bob Hoffnar]

There are already at least 4 minor chords available with the most basic standard set ups. Bm, F#m , C#m and Abm. Find those minor chords in the open position and learn how each one relates to its relative key. Then experiment with the pedals and levers you already have.

I do have one option that can give me a major to minor chord on my set up. It's the 5th string lower split. I don't use it for minors though. Mostly I use it for voice leading or augmented chords.

I could see that 1/2 step lower change being useful (especially if you only lower the 6th string) for some cool options but it seems really awkward for minor chords in the context of playing tunes compared to the minor chords just sitting there already inside the key you are in.

[Tucker Jackson]

Major chord: A+F
Minor chord: A-pedal (so, just release the knee lever but stay on A).

Boom! Major-to-minor change in the same fret. Available on all E9 copedents.

[Bobby D. Jones]

When Mr. Emmons and Mr. Day split the 1st pedal, On an 8 string guitar. That pulled G# to A and B to C#. To (A pedal) raised B to C#, (B pedal) G# to A. And added the (C pedal) E to F#/B to C#.

Knee levers, And 10 string E9th as we know them today, Came later.

At nut open E, 3 frets up Open G (A pedal/F KL raise E's) E. (A pedal) at 3rd fret Em, AND Em G chords 6th minor.

With bar at 12 fret E. 3 frets up 0pen G (A pedal/FKL raise E's) E. (A pedal) Em, 2nd octave G chord 6th minor.
Or Back up to 10 fret Open D, (B/C pedal) Em. (A/B pedal) at 10 fret G. AND G's 6th minor right with G major.

Backup to 8 fret open C, (DKL *lower E's*) Em.

As Mr. Sauser suggested, You have some wiggle room to move and blend the notes, From major to minor. Or minor to major.